Sure wish I knew for sure when the bubble is going to pop. I could have lots of corn sold and make a killing just like the bubble makers will.

Just don't bank on what the USDA says

To paraphrase a British expression, "where there's brass [i.e., money], there's muck."

Can't believe the chill this could put over the entire ethanol industry. Who will be willing to sell to struggling ethanol plants? You would have to be willing to take on great risks.

Any attorneys out there? Is this kind of "clawback" normal in bankruptcy proceedings? Seems to me, a sale is a sale. But maybe I'm missing something here.

Ronald it looks like there's an attorney 4 blogs up from this one

I can't imagine how many farmers this affects, and the total dollar amounts in play. We're seeing many with large numbers just in our local area in SE Minnesota. Unfortunate that honest folks who were just delivering on their contracts are now embroiled in this mess.

Welcome to the future. Ethanol production can come from all parts of this country and other countries will be able to produce much of their own fuel. Local & domestic economies will be strengthened as the power of the OPEC nations will go into decline. Ethanol (from all sources) is the fuel of the here & now as well as the future.

Patrick, I'm with you, every day we hear about new developments in the bio fuels industry. It is an exciting time. One of these days the EPA may figure out that it is time to get out of the way!

Thomas, We can only hope that the EPA will get with the program and clear the way for at least E15 in the near future. Additionally, there is no reason why we can't have E25 approved for all vehicles soon...Brazil has already proven that this is feasible for all vehicles and small engines.

Patrick, Brazil's ethanol program is almost 40 years old. Brazil builds its cars for ethanol. When you say "Brazil has already proven that this is feasible for all vehicles and small engines." you are flat out wrong. Brazil has proven that you can build machines that run on ethanol. They have not proven that all machines that have been built can run on ethanol -- even if corn farmers' incomes depend on ethanol.

Mr. MA, your position would be laughable if it were not for the large number of US citizens who feel the same way you do. Long ago the leaders of Brazil decided to be free of the need to import oil from the Mid East, and that the cost of being free might be some minor inconvenience to the general population. Unfortunately, many folks in the US are not bothered by the fact that we send Billions of our dollars to people who really do not care what happens to the US. I, and many others do care, but going against "Big Oil" and those citizens who think that we should continue to support their industry is the real challenge, made more difficult by folks who fear challenging the status quo.

Marcus, Do you actually think that Brazil had technology superior to ours 40 years ago to make the transition to ethanol? They found out even with their limited technology, compared to ours, that you can run ethanol in all gasoline combustion engines with very limited and low cost improvements. It's "the sky is falling" people such as yourself, that keep the doom and gloom against ethanol, worth every penny that Big Oil, grocery manufacturers, and corporate feed animal companies spend to keep ethanol at it's sub-level playing field.

Marcus I've been an engineer for some 34 years and it seems to me that when I graduated ethanol was just getting started. So we've had ethanol here in the US for about 40 years too. Is the difference in progress because you live here?

In small aircraft engines, no ethanol mix may be suitable, and some cases none is even allowed. See for example: www.sportpilot.org/magazine/feature/2009%20-%2005%20May%20-%20Fuels%20and%20Engines%20for%20EXP_LSA%20Aircraft%20Part%201.pdf

In the immortal words of Upton Sinclair -- “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.” Tom, Patrick, Please! Maybe you just can’t summon the discipline to think objectively about the subject, but your stubborn, even if unwitting, refusal to understand and accept that I wrote what I wrote makes you seem foolish. I did NOT write that we didn’t know how to build FFVs. I wrote “Brazil has proven that you can build machines that run on ethanol. They have not proven that all machines that have been built can run on ethanol.” Henry Ford knew how to build cars to run on biofuels, but gasoline came along so he built cars to run on gasoline. We’ve known how to build FFVs for a long time, but there are lots of things that people know how to do, but don’t choose to do. Nobody cared to build or sell FFVs until some American auto companies used them as a loophole around the mileage standards (even if the people who bought them filled them up with gas). The Japanese automakers never built FFVs because they met the mileage standards anyway. There was really no reason to think about it until Congress increased the mandates in 2007 to levels inconsistent with the existing vehicle fleet. Toyota knew how to build a FFV in 2003, but they didn’t build my Matrix to use more than e10. Brazil had a military dictatorship when the first oil crisis hit and they required people to buy cars that could run on high-test rum. They could do that because they had the bayonets. The plantation owners also liked the program because it was an excellent sugar price support system (just like corn hooch is an excellent corn price support system). But in the 1990s, when oil prices went down the program nearly collapsed. But most of their cars were still capable of running hooch. It wasn’t necessarily rocket science, but they actually built cars that could use Álcool. Similarly, my Toyota was not built to use e15. And Mr. Lawler, Brazil is energy independent because they increased their oil production from about 200 thousand barrels per day 40 years ago to 2 million barrels per day today. Ethanol provides only about the equivalent of 250 thousand barrels of oil per day. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

Anonymous; Brazil is not making machines that nobody else is making in the rest of the world. All the car manufacturers and small engine manufactures that we buy from in the U.S. are the same as those who are selling models in Brazil. Manufactures will build more efficient alcohol engines if they know that the alcohol content of the fuel will be significant (as it is in Brazil). BTW, any small engine can run E85 or higher blends with a small adjustment to the carburator and any vehicle can run at least E50 with no modification whatsoever. E85 or higher may require an inexpensive conversion kit be installed on a non-FFV since alcohol burns so clean that the check engine light may come because the emmission system expects more pollutants to come out of the exhaust. Anonymous...your position is laughable. Oil is on the decline and your Toyota Matrix will do just fine running on higher blends of alcohol. In fact, it will run smoother, cleaner and will last much longer with the more alcohol content you run in it.

Marcus read this from an E85 forum. "Hi Everyone, I am new to this forum, and am very excited to have found it. I guess the reason is, I just got some hard data for our shop 2008 GT Mustang. We used our new "Dyno Dynamics Dyno" today, and finally got some real data. I have been running straight E85 on the car for approximately 10,000 miles, here in South Florida. As many of you know, the only issue was the Check Engine Light. I am a huge advocate for E85, but I am just recently acquiring the tuning software to really put the theories to the test. So here is what we have so far, and where our shop is going with this. 2008 GT Mustang, has Underdrive Pulleys, and Magnaflow Catback. No other mods, no other tunes. AFR, was set up for fuel, ...still working on How to use the dyno, so I had to do some math. essentially taking the Gasoline Air Fuel and dividing by 1.47. Here are the results, remember, we didn't touch the computer, that Ford put in the car. No flash, no nothing. Here is the bottom line-On 89 Octane, the Car made 275 RWHP and 300FtLb with an Air Fuel for gas, at 13.5. On E85, 100% in the tank it made 297Hp and 330FtLb with a gasoline airfuel of 12.5, which equates to 8.5 Air Fuel for E85. I can't wait to get the tuning software in the shop, just to fatten it up a bit. Fuel Mileage BTW, is 26MPG on 89 Octane and 23MPG on straight E85. Watch out Big Oil!! Prohibition is almost over for the Hot Rods. Being we are in Florida, there is virtually no go to people for help and advice. We are one of the only shops, that seems to be pushing this stuff. If you have any advice, such as tuning software to use for tuning domestics, or types of materials required for the fuel systems, please speak your mind. We are really leaning on the performance capabilities of this fuel, I think its one of the best ways to get American Culture interested in this stuff. Our shop is AA Performance in Cape Coral, FL. It's great to be here."

Patrick, Once again, The fact that: "All the car manufacturers and small engine manufactures that we buy from in the U.S. are the same as those who are selling models in Brazil." does not mean they sell the same machines. They are sold to local specs. That's way Fords sold in England and Japan have the steering wheel on the right!!! American car manufacturers in Europe sell passenger cars with diesel engines that don't meet U.S. specs. They meet European air quality regulations. But I'm wasting my time. But I'm wasting my time. You don't believe any facts that don't agree with corn farmers and nothing will get them through your head -- not even a Black-and-Decker drill and a funnel. And you may be right, oil may be on it's way out. And even if it's not, there's not enough if 1.3 billion Chinese start driving. My guess is that electricity comes next. But getting to 15 billion gallons of ethanol won't contribute to much of anything.

Martin, That's nothing! Look'it what I found on the internet! http://www.elvissightingbulletinboard.com/

Marcus- What Martin posted is a real life situation. I have seen a similar situation with local cars here in Wisconsin- not on-line but real cars using it successfully for long periods unmodified and in both street and performance applications.

Marcus, do you have a vehicle that you would be willing to do a case study on? I feel that you are strongly affected by what you read, yet many of those you disagree with, are speaking from personal experience. Are you afraid of what you might reveal to yourself? Step up to the plate of your own scientific research and give yourself some personal credibility, instead of relying on other's research which may be skewed.

Energy User, No -- I won't donate a car to your cause. Pay for your own! The personal experience that most of the people on this blog are writing about is that $4 corn sure pays their bills better than $2 corn. And they have ethanol to thank for that. Never ask the barber if you need a haircut. If you do, you get clipped! Even the NREL whose income also depends on "renewable fuels" can't claim the mileage wonders that corn farmers claim. When these things can be duplicated in a lab, I'll take notice.

Anonymous, just as you refuse to accept the fact that many, many people are running all kinds of vehicles & equipment using higher levels of ethanol blends without problems you also assume that I and others all must be corn farmers. Ethanol should be made from cornstarch, sorghum, sugar beets, sugar cane, cellulose, hemp, etc...pick the right feedstock for a particular climate and grow the fuel for many of our energy needs. Grow baby, grow is the answer to the drill baby, drill crowd that you seem to be beholden to. FYI I am not a corn farmer...just a person who plainly sees the benefits of fueling my personal vehicles on ethanol and how those benefits can significantly help our nation to wean itself off of dirty gasoline & oil.

Patrick, You insist that I should try to go from e10 to e30 and expect different results than when I went from e0 to e10 (and noticed the predicted 3% loss of mileage). My experience already does match the lab results! As for all these other personal "testimonials" -- they sound like all the other "testimonial" that "Jesus can cure your cancer if you only have enough faith (and give the preacher $10!). Or like the testimonials that if we just give enough money (and use enough corn hooch) Jesus will give us cellulosic ethanol starting this year. In any case, "grow baby grow" as an alternative to "drill baby drill" is just mathematically impossible. ALL the world's grain (no tacos!) might just replace the U.S. gasoline supply. The extra 1-2 billion gallons of corn lik'ker per year that we get from allowing e12 or e15 will not make any useful difference in energy supplies. What it will do is make it harder for very poor people to afford food, while making it easier for people who own corn land to take a plusher vacation.

Anonymous...as the rest of the world grows and produces more and more ethanol from many different feedstock sources I wish you all the best as you cling to oil based fuels.

So Marcus, are you suggesting that farmers raise corn for less than what it costs to produce, to satisfy your idea of affordable food. With all the smart answers that you seem to show here in these blogs, I can't understand why you aren't a big farmer taking plush vacations, if you think its all a bed of roses. Im sure with your vast knowledge of ethanol and corn farming, you would be quite successful. There's always land for sale and the equipment dealers lots are full of equipment for you to buy. Dive right in Marcus, show everyone how to raise cheap corn.

GWL, I never said that raising corn is a bed of roses. The guy that does the work and takes the risks is always living on the edge. The guy (or gal) that inherits corn land is the one that's doing good. And if the guy that does the work ever makes out good, the landowner can just raise his rent. Five years ago farmers were happy with anything over $2. American agriculture knew how to produce $2 corn. Now farmers are struggling at $4. But some farmer's granddaughter can live well teaching English literature because the extra rent due to ethanol pays her mortgage. But heck! Somebody has to subsidize English literature. No, I wouldn't go into farming, but I sure wish granddad did (he was a carpenter).

Marcus, Jesus paid for all my sins on a cross at Calvary. Be careful how you throw around his name. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. "Behold, I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done". Revelation 22:10

Marcus, if you can't step up to the plate, go sit back down in the dugout. You have no personal credibility, unless you are willing to do your own research. The endless quoteing of other's research, and constant bashing of renewable fuels, based on other's research, is getting old. Thomas B., thank you for the witness of our Lord and Saviour, you are absolutely right - an ethanol blog is not the place to throw around Christ's name.